U-701                                       September 8, 1942
	Interrogation of ISN-5-7 (NA) by Lieut. Kubala.
	Prisoners name - Gunert Kunert
	Q. What is your rank?     A. Obersteuermann (senior navigator, petty officer 1st class.)     Q. What is your number?     A. USN 2101244-35S     Q. Pull this chair up and sit down.  When were you born?     A. June 15, 1914.     Q. The color of your hair?     A. Dark blond.     Q. Color of your eyes?     A. Gray.     Q. Which submarine did you belong to?     A. U-Degen.     Q. Do you know the number?     A. No.     Q. I know it.     A. I know it too, but I can't tell you.  I am sorry.  If you know it, so much the better.     Q. When were you taken prisoner?     A. On July 9th.     Q. And when did you come here?     A. August 6th.     Q. Are you married?     A. No.     Q. Are your parents alive?
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	A. My Mother.     Q. Where does she live?     A. In Magdeburg.     Q. Are you a native of Magdeburg?     A. Not quite.  I have lived in Magdeburg since 1920, but I was born at Brandenburg an der Havel (River Havel).     Q. Brandenburg du der Havel?     A. Do you know these cities     Q. Most certainly.     A. You speak German so well, one would think you are a German.     Q. I am an American.  Would you care for a cigarette?     A. Thank you very much.  That is what I miss most.     Q. So you come from Brandenburg?     A. Yes, and I always passed through there, even after I had stopped living there.     Q. Do you know Berlin well?     A. Yes.  I have been engaged there, and my sister lives there too.     Q. Where does she live?     A. In the Baumschueenweg, in the southeast part of Berlin, near Gruenan.     Q. That is near the "Mueggel" lake, isn't it?     A. Yes that is correct.     Q. That is also near Strablau - Rummelsburg.  I know that neighborhood.  When were you in Berlin last?     A. On my last furlough in Spring.     Q. What does Berlin look like today?     A. It looks alright.  Except for the blackout at night.
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	Q. You have no lights there?     A. None at all, nowhere, except maybe in Vienna, where I haven't been yet.     Q. You have been around in Berlin, haven't you?     A. Oh, not so much.  I have been there several weeks on furlough at different times.  Of course, I know the main parts.     Q. You know more or less the amusement centers?     A. Not so much.  When I was there with my sister, I took it easy as far as amusements are concerned.  After all I had other opportunities when I visited Hamburg, etc.  But I also know some places in Berlin.     Q. Berlin is a very nice town.  Did the British do much damage there?     A. The only damage I saw in Berlin was a shattered house near the "Silesia Station" (Schlesischer Bahmdeuf).  However that was a year ago.  I don't know what happened since I have been in captivity.     Q. I saw a January edition of the "Berliver Illustrierte Zeituny" (Berlin paper containing mostly pictures), which contained pictures of the "Lehrter" and "Potsdammer" station.  When did you say you were around here last?     A. In spring, in the month of March.     Q. I thought I saw that paper in January or March.  That was in Mexico, where they have German papers.  What does Hamburg look like?     A. Quite a few houses have suffered there.     Q. And what about casualties?
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	A. Several thousand people died there.  I am not sure, because I do not know Hamburg too well.  I merely passed through there and met some acquaintances of mine.  Most of the damage was done in the vicinity of the Alster, because it presents a good target, being visible from a distance.  However the harbor installation did not suffer extensively.  In Bremen much more damage was done.     Q. Did you see Lubeck?     A. Not after the all-out attack.  But I understand the city has suffered extensively.  There are those old houses with a framework structure and they burn like tinder, and the space between them is so narrow that if one house burns, a slight wind can set an entire city section afire.     Q. I was told that Frankfurt-am-Main was heavily hit.     A. I can't tell you about that.  I have never been there.     Q. Colon has suffered heavy damage?     A. Colon, yes.  Well those are the industrial section of western Germany, which are constantly attacked.  All those old towns are too narrowly spaced, the streets are too narrow and then they don't have any proper air raid shelters.  After all you have to have space in an air raid shelter.     Q. That is too bad.     A. Yes, it is very sad that the civilian population has to suffer whether that be in Germany or England.  That is against my conceptions.  It is a different story if you are a soldier in which case you may have to anticipate death.     Q. It is most unfortunate that the conduct of warfare has gone that far.      A. As long as warfare was confined to soldiers it was all right.  That cannot be changed.  But nevertheless it is shameful that white people
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	A. have to fight against each other, because there is enough space for all of them in this world, and they all would have enough to eat and enough space to live.  Well you just can't do anything about that.  I also had the impression in this country.  We were sitting in a train coming from Boston and for the first time met up with those negro stewards.  We had been captured prior to that north of Cape Hatteras, if I am not mistaken, and we had been hospitalized in Norfolk, because we were very weak, having been in the water for 50 hours.     Q. You had those life-jackets?     A. Yes, but we had only very few because the submarine went to pieces immediately, within 30 seconds.  I guess 30 men escaped but only 7 were saved, the others perished.  So we arrived at Norfolk, and passed from the hands of the Navy into those of the Army, and they took us hand-cuffed, even though we had trouble walking, because we had been hospitalized for three days to the station of Norfolk on a Sunday night in such a manner that we were all chained to one corporal.  The entire civilian population was there, having just returned from their weekend excursions, and we did not look too well with our long beards, rather like a bunch of tramps.  And then we saw those negro stewards on those pullmans, and it was a strange sensation to realize that those negroes were witness to the fact that white men were the captives of other white men.  Of course, we have no negroes at home.     Q. You don't have to be ashamed of negroes.  They live here like white people.  We live together with then and they are decent folks.     A. Of course, I don't dispute that.     Q. Here white and colored children attend school together, and we have even colored lawyers.
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	A. Yes, I was surprised to see them at the Berlin Olympic games in 1936 which I attended for two days.  The U.S.A. was the only country which brought colored sportsmen over.     Q. They come from American schools and universities.  You really don't have to be ashamed of them.  They are good Americans.  We have Indians and Chinamen and many people who came from other countries.     A. Yes, many of them used to come to Germany.  Some of them are German.  Some of them are German, like you.  I suppose as far as your language is concerned.  If you were in Germany one could not recognize you as an American, while the other officer who interviewed us, spoke definitely with an accent.  But if I would meet you anywhere, for instance in a restaurant, I would say that you were a native of the Uckermark.     Q. Is that so.  But I am not a native of the Uckermark.     A. But you talk like that.  You have a Captain here for instance, who talks like a Luebian.  I don't know his name but he is around here quite frequently.     Q. Maybe he is a naval officer?     A. Oh, no.  He has two silver bars and therefore is a captain which would correspond to our "Hauptmann."  I speak a little English and it seems to me when we talk that he has a Luebian accent.     Q. Is he a big stout fellow?     A. Yes.     Q. Oh, he is an officer of the guard.  How is the food today in Germany?     A. It has been rationed to quite an extent, but as long as I was there, vegetables and potatoes were available.  Of course, I am a member of a U-boat
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	A. crew, and we always had everything.     Q. Of course.  How is the coffee situation?     A. There is none because we cannot plant or import it.  The same goes for tobacco.  Big staples of tobacco were captured in Holland and Germany also grows some which is not worth a damn, and those two brands are being mixed.  Of course, I don't know how things are today.     Q. Doesn't the civilian population complain today?     A. I was surprised about that too.  I spoke to quite a few civilians in Hamburg and would have expected them to be disgruntled but they weren't.  Partly they took their beds down into the cellar and spend their nights there, whenever they expect an air raid, especially in winter when the nights become longer.  And their behavior is all right.     Q. In the last war they spoke up though when they did not get anything to eat?     A. In the last war they had enough to eat in the beginning.  I have not witnessed it, because when the war started, I was only half a year old, but as a matter of fact food in the first two years was plentiful and then later on there was hardly any food at all.  In our present days rationing has already been introduced before the war.     Q. You had those ration cards even before the war?     A. Yes, but the rations were bigger in the beginning and were cut down later on.     Q. Has the last winter done much damage and do you think it does affect the potato situation?     A. Well in spring we had very few potatoes, because the farmers could not get to the pits in which the potatoes were stored. because the duration of the winter which lasted until March froze the earth around those pits.  Later on the situation became better.
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	Q. I mean has the potato crop suffered this year through the dampness?     A. I don't know.  I wasn't there.  Yes, I think that the crops, etc., are good.     Q. But you don't suspect how bad it is now?     A. We have the prisoners there to do the work in the potato fields.  It is not as it is here with us.  It's no use for us to try to escape either to Canada or Mexico and it is impossible to try to cross the Atlantic.  No matter where I would go, I would be in danger of being captured as a prisoner again.  I have never seen prisoners kept so long in a place where they had nothing to do.     Q. That gives you time to recuperate.     A. Here!  I hope you won't keep us here for the duration of the war.     Q. All that will soon be changed for you.     A. In Germany we have not the privilege to make a suggestion.  There are so many.     Q. Well, we have 150,000,000 people here and Germany has only 80,000,000.      A. And you have more soldiers, too.     Q. We will really start something when they are prepared and equipped.     A. We haven't anything to read here, and while we were told that it would come once every week, we had anticipated it a week ago and had made our purchases accordingly.  It hasn't yet returned.  Of course, I know one could bum a smoke here and there from guards but that wouldn't be fair.  When we were in Camp Devens there were only seven of us and American Officers and guards would always see to it that we had enough to smoke.  However, since we came here, it has been impossible to know how much to buy in
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	A. Order to keep up with weekly supplies.  Then when we came here we found things quite different.  There are some twenty-five to thirty rooms filled with occupants and no one could expect a guard to give everyone a cigarette whenever he felt like smoking.  There is, for instance, a master sergeant who belongs to another boat who hasn't yet been classified and there are many others in the same shape.  We try to take care of them as best we can regarding necessities and cigarettes.     Q. Well, I'll write those things down here and I'll see that the situation is corrected.     A. Well now I don't want you to feel that I am begging for favor.  I am getting some money and all I am asking is to have an opportunity to spend it.     Q. Have you always been with a U-boat?     A. No.     Q. Where were you captured?     A. At Cape Hatteras.     Q. What is your occupation?     A. Seaman.     Q. What boats did you travel on in the Merchant Marine?     A. The last was the Dresden.     Q. Dresden became well known as a prison ship.  It sailed around thru the Mediterranean and North Sea but could not land anywhere.     A. I never heard that.  The Dresden isn't a fast ship.     Q. It isn't a fast ship, but it is a good one.  I knew the Captain.  What is you Captain's name?  Degen, isn't it?     A. Yes, if I ever have the opportunity to be on a submarine again, I hope he will be the commander.
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	Q. I haven't seen him but I have heard a great deal about him.  How is the German beer today?     A. In the Army and Navy, we still have good beer.  Otherwise, they have weaker beer.  We have only 6% beer.     Q. We have 6 1/2% beer here.     A. Now during the war, we have weaker beer.     Q. Yes, German beer was much stronger.     A. It was stronger and the exported beer was still stronger before the war.  Perhaps it was about 10%.  Can you tell me how soon we will leave here.     Q. I can't tell you exactly but I think it will be sometime during the next two weeks.  I think I will get the opportunity yo find out about that.     A. Yes, that would be fine, and maybe you can have the canteen come here every Wednesday.  The Captain told us we could buy everything we wanted on Wednesday.  The others wanted to have German books to read, but I don't know if you can do anything about it.     Q. Do you belong to the Nazi Party?     A. I don't belong to it.     Q. What do you think of the Party.     A. Being never at home much, I wasn't able to judge, but I believe everything has improved in Germany since Nazi rule.  I was no democrat in my views either and my father didn't have much to do with political parties because he was an infantry soldier for 21 years and participated in all of the last war.     Q. To which regiment did your father belong?     A. 35th.  My father died in the Spring.     Q. Was he in Pomerania?
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	A. No.  He left the 35th Infantry when it was dissolved and was transferred to the 24th of the ground forces.     Q. Was he ever in Kustrin?     A. No, He was not.  That was not included in the circle of the 24th regiment ground forces.     Q. According to your statement then the new order has improved things?     A. Yes.  Everything is improved.  We have much better highways now that we used to have.  I have never seen so many and such beautiful highways.  Many factories were built.  One can see that he must be a great man.  It is remarkable that he has accomplished so much in so little time.     Q. What are those other rascals doing -- Goebbels and Goering?     A. It is certain that evils have been done.     Q. Many Germans came to South America and I spoke to some Catholics from Bavaria, most of whom came over in 1939, and they all said that they were dissatisfied.     A. Is that what they say?     Q. I can't understand that some say that it is so fine over there while others say they don't want to go back because of their Catholic religion.     A. Yes, the Catholics.     Q. But the are persecuted.     A. Yes, the government took over their control because they interfered with government matters instead of attending to religious matters.  I don't know if you are Protestant or Catholic.  Both were concerned with government affaire and that is not their mission at all and the government has forced them to return to their proper task.  The Catholic Church participated freely in government, owned large tracts of land which it was unwilling to give up and distribute and consequently the church has come to
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	A. great odds with the government.  I don't think it was that way formerly but now everyone has work and must work.     Q. Yes, when everyone works and earns money, he should be satisfied.  Are you married?     A. No.  I would like to get married but in war time it's foolish.     Q. Yes, one can't make a home, settle down, etc.  What do you think of your other allies?     A. I will tell you that honestly.  They are enthusiastic fellows like the Italians and southern European nations.  They are all right in the beginning but they are helpless when left to take care of themselves.     Q. Are there any Italian Naval Officers that go to school in Germany?     A. Yes.  I don't know about the Army but I saw them in the Navy.  But I don't know what work they take up in school.     Q. Do they make friends in Germany?     A. Yes, they are a friendly nation.     Q. I can remember when the Italians' boys went up and down the streets of Berlin to sell mouse traps.     A. Yes, they still call them mousetrap vendors.  They don' make good soldiers so they have to come to Germany to work.  Germany is highly regarded as the center of industry where one can receive instruction in anything.  Germany is also looked upon as a leader in all fields.     Q. That may be.     A. That is our destiny.  In England, Norway and Sweden, for instance there are those who are very rich and someone very poor.  That is not the case in Germany.  Small businessmen all have an equal chance.     Q. So you make workers out of the Italian soldiers and you make soldiers out of the German workers.
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	A. The Italians don't make good soldiers.  That is what is being done today.  There are many Italian soldiers working in Germany.     Q. Tell me honestly - - How are yo treating your Russian prisoners?     A. That depends!  Some of the Russians do not want to work and when they refuse, they are forced to work, except officers who make their own choice.  Those that want to work get better treatment and get enough to eat and some money.     Q. Are there many Japanese in Germany?     A. One sees a Japanese very seldom.  There are always some and still are those who are students and those connected with the government.     Q. They go to military schools?     A. So?  That I did not notice.     Q. What do you think of the Japanese?     A. I don't know much about them, but I was in Japan several times.  A person can never tell what a Japanese is thinking by the expression in his face.  He never says what he thinks.     Q. I can't understand why Germany and Japan got together in this war?     A. Yes, I'll tell you something about that.  The leader would much rather have joined up with England.  England feared Germany's supremacy over Europe and hence she became jealous.  Germany felt that she had a right to have a superior land force inasmuch as England has a superior sea force.  We had 80,000,000 people and could not support ourselves and therefore it was a necessity for us to expand.  We need supplies as chocolate, rubber and oil which England could have supplied.  With Germany in complete control of Europe, no other power could have attacked.  I know for certain that Hitler would much rather united with England than with
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	A. Italy or Japan.  A europe with a superior Sea Force and Germany with a superior land force would make things much better.     Q. And what do you think of us Americans?     A. I met some Americans who were interpreters and others of the Red Cross who were surprised that we felt so fearless about becoming prisoners in America because they thought that we were told we would be shot or hanged.  But we realized that we did not need to expect that, even as an American prisoner in Germany does not have to fear of being shot or hanged.  Of course, I don't know about America because we were held in the prison camp.     Q. Do you have any friends in this country?     A. None at all.  I have met some people in South America and a German boy born of American parents, with whom I attended school together and who later on returned to the United States.  I do not know his address though.     Q. Do you know his name?     A. Yes, sir.  His name is Herman Ebert.  He must be around 28 or 30 years old.  However, I am entirely ignorant as to his fate and the place where he lives.  It is somewhere up in the northern states.  I think it would be difficult to locate him, because the name "Ebert" is quite popular.      Q. I don't think so.  It is a German name of course.  Can you recall those times when you went to school together?     A. Yes, I can.     Q. What do you think about the German government which was in power before Hitler?     A. Oh, they tried their best.  For instance BRUE WING who was a Social Democrat, tried very hard and one cannot say that those people displayed bad will and harmed Germany intentionally, but they lacked in ability.
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	A. And then they faced a nearly impossible task, because there were 32 parties in Germany and it was disgusting to see this disunity.  The happenings in the "Reichstag" (the German Congress) were more comparable to a slapstick comedy than anything else.     Q. I recall those events, because I was in Germany in 1928.  What does the German population think about America's entry into the war?     A. They always hoped it would be averted.  But America before it actually entered the war delivered implements of war to England, and therefore, except for the fact that our armies did not clash, America was a belligerent fighting against us.     Q. But I cannot understand that Hitler declared war upon us.  After all this deal with England was only a business proposition, and what difference did it make whether we sold airplanes or butter to them.  The Germans had no purchasing power anyway.     A. Well - I don't know.     Q. What does the German population think about this matter?     A. The German population thinks exactly the way you do.     Q. I mean, what were their opinion after America entered the war?  Think it over.  After all when America entered the war in 1917 it came to a speedy end.  Don't the German people fear a repetition.     A. No.     Q. Why not.  In this country we can stand this war for a duration of 100 years.     A. I admit that.     Q. We are economically on top and we have a big enough population to supply soldiers for a second front, whenever we are ready.     A. I don't think that you would be able to land on French soil.  After all you attempted it at Dieppe.
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	Q. But that was more or less a reconnaissance mission.     A. I must admit that it was a reconnaissance mission.     Q. And then of course you have not seen any American soldiers yet.     A. No, I haven't.  I only saw Canadians.  But then you must not forget the fact that we have some very good troops in western Europe and especially in France.  I wonder whether you are familiar with the name of von Rundstadt.     Q. Yes, I am.  Have you seen all our planes which went over France?     A. Yes, I have.     Q. Do you think that the Germans can build as many airplanes as we can here.  40,000 planes per year.     A. I don't know how many we can build.  But then the war in Russia is bound to come to an end.     Q. In the last two weeks however the fortunes of war have been against Germany.     A. Oh, I am not concerned about that.  So far, whenever German soldiers stepped on a battlefield they gained victory.     Q. But there are American soldiers in Russia today.     A. That may be.     Q. We know that the Russians are good soldiers.     A. Well how does it appeal to you to have the Russians as your allies?     Q. That is the same situation as that of Germany with the Italians and Japanese.     A. I would not say that.  But then we hardly come in contact with the Japanese and I guess the same goes for you and the Russians.  The Japanese merely take part of our burden through creation of another front
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	A. and the same takes place with the Russians and you.  If the Russians would not have entered the war, I am sure you would not have prevailed.      Q. I am not so sure about that.  You must realize that we did not get into the war on account of Russia, but because of the Japanese attack.  They attacked us without warning while their ambassadors talked peace for many years to come.  And then the very next day Hitler declared war upon us.  I cannot understand that.  After all Germany and the United States always had close ties.     A. That's right because a large part of your population is of German origin.     Q. And those former Germans are very happy to be here and have no intentions of going back.     A. The whole trouble derives from the fact that the Germans had no colonies and the German people could not make a living nor did they know where to go.  We should have been in a position to say to those people:  You can work in the colonies, but that is the mistake which our politicians made a hundred years ago.  There were also a lot of people who made propaganda for the acquisition of colonies, as long as there were any, but disunity prevailed between Austria and Prussia and the smaller states, and because there was no homogenous empire, nobody was willing to invest money into the colonial project and so it broke up.  For that reason, we had the worst colonies in the end; yet they flourished, because the German worker is industrious and so we derived some benefits and also sent people to the colonies who were unemployed in Germany.  And now the colonies are gone and we have nothing.  And here is another reason, the political turmoil and the Jews.      Q. Why were the Jews subjected to persecution in Germany?  That is another thing which I cannot understand.  I know many German Jews, who lived in Germany and were very decent people, and who had many friends in Germany.
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	A. Yes, but there are more bad then good members of the Jewish race.  That at least is my opinion.  The Jew does not like to work, but he is rather a business and tradesman.  In Germany all money agents were Jews.  And I know from my mother who came from Pomerania, that all the big real estate buildings and large farms, which had suffered economically after the last war and were in need of financial reconstruction, had completely fallen into Jewish hands.  The Jew loaned money to their former proprietors, and when they were not able to repay, he simply took their buildings over.  And that did not happen in one case but in hundreds of cases.     Q. Look here - when you come to me and borrow 1000 marks, with the promise to pay it back after a year, you must take into consideration that he had to work for this money.  I can't give money away for nothing.     A. I realize that.     Q. So this deal continues, and you cannot pay your interest, and then you cannot pay at all, so I finally have to take your buildings over.     A. That is true, but there was a racial question.  This question has been solved with the greatest application of strictness.  Jews can no more inter-marry with Gentiles.     Q. I still cannot get to the bottom of this?     A. Well, it was one of the points on the program of the National Socialist Party.  "Germany belongs to Germans,"  is their slogan.  And the Jew maybe a good Englishman, Frenchman or American, but he belongs to a different race.  I don't agree always with those policies.  For instance, I knew a Jewish boy in Germany who went to school with me and I also knew his father.  I think they are in England now.  For those people I feel sorry.  I dare not say whether the anti-Jewish program is good or bad for
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	A. Germany, but I personally have no sympathies for the Jews.  But I am not too much of a sentimentalist.  But the false reports which are being spread about those persecutions fired their way into American or English magazines.  Those magazines only cost a few cents, and are very popular for that reason.  I have been reading one, which deals with Superman and Captain Marvel and similar figures, and one of them went to Holland to save a Dutch General and penetrates into a German prison where the cruelties of the German "butchers" are being pictured.  I can assure you honestly that such things do not exist in Germany.  We do not exactly eulogize the American either, but propaganda in this form is not being exercised.     Q. I spoke to a Naval Officer aspirant (Faelwrich) from Berlin - -     A. He was from the "Rathke", wasn't he?     Q. Yes, I think so.  And he told me what the Russians do to the German prisoners.  And then I asked him:  Did you see those atrocities being committed and he said, No.     A. Well I did not see that either.     Q. Well, that's what I was coming to.  Now this fellow goes around and tells those stories everywhere, and he states that he read them in the German newspapers.     A. I couldn't say that.  But we have examples from the last war, when German prisoners returned from Russia.  I had an Uncle who was retained in Russian captivity up to 1923 and he told some terrible stories about things he had seen.     Q. Well that was during the World War, and now things are different to an extent that even the Russians have changed during the past 20 years.     A. Yes, but in postwar Russia, all the aristocratic and intellectual elements were either exiled or killed.
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	Q. Nevertheless, the Russian schools, even though they preach communism have been vastly improved.     A. That is true.     Q. At least now the Russians can live, which they could not do before the war.     A. But the Russians are still subject to the same slavery as they were under the Tsar.  They were serfs and had to work all day long, the same way as we had a system of serfdom in Germany hundreds of years ago and you had your slavery.  After all, I have been in Russia, In Vladivastok, and have actually been terrified by their kind of communism.  We had a communist party in Germany but they were pretty moderate compared to their associates in Russia.  Then you don't have a uniform racial picture in Russia.  There are Asiatics, Caucasion tribes, Tarters, etc.  And look at the Russian leaders, for instance, Stalin.  Maybe Molotov is all right, he seems to be pretty moderate and perhaps he does not agree with all this humbug in Russia, but I won't say that in general you have a wrong picture of the situation.  FOr instance they have two or three different types of currency, and when you went to Russia, they gave you Gold rubles, but the russian worker received paper rubles, when we went to Russia, we received some money, not much, but enough to buy a few things and step out.  There was also a so-called "German Out", reserved for sailors only, and they took you there by car and served food and drinks free of charge and showed you free movies and then they took you to a model factory to display the advantages which the Russian worker enjoyed.  Some of our officers tried to go somewhere else, but the Russian authorities did not permit that under threat of punishment.     Q. Well, it is almost dinner time, and I'd better leave you now.  Here are a few cigarettes for you and I expect to see you some other time.
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